Composer and keyboardist Rob Gould, has written and recorded 13 solo albums, but for his next release he has reworked the classic Van der Graaf Generator album, Pawn Hearts. Jason Barnard speaks to Rob about this ambitious project and his solo journey.
What was it about Pawn Hearts that inspired you to recreate it?
Over recent years I have submitted a few ‘single track’ cover versions to Fruits de Mer Records for inclusion on various compilation albums that FdM have released (Bowie, Beatles, Floyd etc), and I thought I’d like to attempt something a little more expansive and try and recreate an epic long number from one of my other favourite artists.
I have been a fan of Vandergraaf Generator and Peter Hammill’s music for 30+ years, and the opening phrase from the Vandergraaf ‘Vital’ live version of ‘A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers’ is something that I’d always ‘rested on’ during rehearsal. In fact any time I entered a piano or music shop, I would usually play the first few notes! So I decided to expand on that and it all bloomed from there.
What was the production process – when did you record it?
The recording process did take a little time. Looking back on initial conversations with some of the fabulous collaborators, it seems that the first notes (see above) where recorded in September 2018, and I finally had the finished masters in May of this year (2021). This was longer than anticipated, which was mainly due to contributor’s other commitments, my own projects (Sector NINE’s – 3 albums, two self-penned solo album releases and producing The Purple Gang’s Chris Joe Beard‘s album)… and of course, covid.
Initially with ‘Lighthouse’ and ‘Man Erg’, I recorded skeletal-piano-vox-guides and sent these ‘VDGG light’ versions to Cary Grace and Pete Carlyle for their perusal and assessment .
Once the frameworks of these songs were in place, I slowly added extra keyboards, and other instruments – (a few bass parts, special effects etc.) while over the coming months receiving and talking through my fellow musician’s vocal and instrumental submissions, mainly over the internet. Lemmings was perhaps a more complete record in terms of all keyboard parts were recorded and then submitted to Luiz Garcia and Dr Fantastico in Brazil for their inclusions.
Who did you collaborate with and why?
I first heard Cary Grace on a Fruits de Mer, David Bowie cover compilation in 2016 called ‘A New Career In A New Town’. Her version of ‘Queen Bitch’ was a stand-out track on the album.. and she was on my wish-list of vocalists from that point. I imagined that her wonderful tone and obvious musicality would be a great fit for ‘Lighthouse’ – so you can imagine that I was delighted that Cary agreed to ‘have a go!’
Pete Carlyle’s involvement came more by chance. Pete and I share a mutual great friend in Clive Leighton, and it was Clive that introduced me to Pete. Over the years we have been exchanging links to clips of our shared fave artists.. Bowie, Beatles , VDGG, Zappa etc etc.. also sending each other snippets of our own songs, sometimes complete and other times in their work-in-progress state.. Pete did an amazing version of ‘Hammill’s ‘ The Institute of Mental Health , Burning’ and it was off the back of that recording that the penny dropped, he would be ideal for Man Erg. Thrilled that he agreed to be involved, I was amazed to receive, very quickly, a completely produced, harmonized, fabulous vocal performance.
Sam Buckley is a fantastic drummer and friend who I know from working in the Castleton caves. I recruited Sam to play on a couple of tracks for Chris ‘Joe’ Beard’s ‘Balloons On A String’ album that I was producing.. and during our recording session we jammed out the bare bones of Man Erg. During the many hours recording with ‘Joe’, I managed to get him to play a little acoustic refrain or two on ‘Lighthouse’ which can be heard in one of the quieter passages of the song.
Rob and Luiz Garcia (2006)
Luiz Garcia is a dear friend and musical companion from my days in Brazilian heavy, prog, folk rock band ‘Ashtar’. We shared many adventures in the mid and late 2000s touring Europe and frequent concerts in South America.. and during the task of me arranging, recording and fathoming out the complexities of Pawn Hearts, he was my ‘go to guy!’ As well as being a fabulous guitar player, and great vocalist, Luiz is a skilled engineer and producer, and was invaluable in getting the right feel that I wanted for the tracks he performs on. He was also able to record his fellow band members from ‘Dr Fantastico’ – Ricardo ‘Pizza’ Martinelli (drums), Gabriel Costa (bass guitar) and Fernando Alge (guitars) over in Sao Paolo, who provided amazing parts for the ‘Lemmings’ track. In return, I was delighted to be asked to play keyboards on one of their own tracks from their ‘Cicadoidea’ album. We’re also planning more musical collaborations in the future together – so one of the joys of making this album is, I was able to deepen existing friendships and make some amazing new friends, to play great music with, even though we are many miles apart.
How do you think the sound of Pawn Hearts compares to the original version and your own solo material?
Once the idea of recording the complete Pawn Hearts album was set in my mind, I thought it important not to try and replicate the original album, which in any case, with classic Vandergraaf’s unique style, sound and other-worldly qualities, would be an impossible target to reach in my view.
I’m not really one for tribute acts – “tonight Matthew, I’m going to be… Vandergraaf Generator” for example.. so I settled on somewhere between total emersion (learning the tracks) – and an intended sense of detachment from the original. Doing it in my own way and style so to speak. There are passages in my song versions that are close to VDGG Pawn Hearts of course, as the melodies and chord structures of the original tracks dictate.
In terms of how ‘Rob Gould plays Pawn Hearts’ compares to my other solo work? – I have released an eclectic variety of music over the years, from cave documentary soundtracks, to experimental electronica and some prog leanings – all of which are part of my arsenal in tackling something as monumental as the Pawn Hearts trilogy. So RGpPH I feel sits well with my evolving catalogue of music.
How did you get into writing and recording music?
Back in the early 80s – it was the old school band – we were a motley crew with quite differing musical interests. Collectively, we all kind of liked Hawkwind and Floyd – so a lot of the covers of their longer tracks ‘ Master Of The Universe’ Brainstorm. – Floyd’s Set the Controls etc evolved into jams that became unique compositions.. I was playing an old heavy Yamaha Electone organ through a wah pedal – which my Dad and I would cart around in the back of his works van to rehearsal and gigs – so a lot of early self-penned ‘songs’ were hammered out on that – I had no formal musical education or training (unless o-level Music counts), but was lucky to have a piano , eventually the Yam organ, in the house, and an older sister who had some cool pop records in her collection.. Bowie, Sparks, Genesis, ELO etc..So there was access to an instrument and plenty of quality music at home… I was also a Beatles nut from my mid teens and studied their music, while assuming it was a normal, natural thing to write songs.
By the mid 80s, the band (Masque) had evolved into a kind of proggy, goth, post punk outfit.. So we’d be emulating and embracing bands such as Killing Joke, The Stranglers, as well as The Nice and early Genesis. Once the band thing had fizzled out by the late 80s, I got myself a little 4 track recorder, and started recording more synth based ambient and experimental music – which lead into soundtrack composition. I was in my late 20s before I would write more song-based material for my then band ‘Fula’ 94 / 04. So all in all, it’s been an evolving and revolving door of creative writing and production activity over the last 30 or so years.
Who are your biggest musical influences and why?
The Beatles – the quality of their compositions, the astonishing evolvement of their sound in such a short time period.
In terms of my keyboard playing style – perhaps Richard Wright.. although he was a far more musically-educated player than myself. Dave Greenfield from the Stranglers was a big fave in my late teens.. playing fast arpeggios in a punk band – while drinking a beer or rolling a fag with his other hand.. I wanted to be that guy!
The fandom part of my brain still leans towards the (my) holy trinity of Bowie, Hammill and Gabriel.
I believe Roger Waters had an uncanny knack of saying ‘when’ or ‘now’ at the right time with the Floyd.. and I always take that on board when composing more lengthy work.
Other artists such as Harold Budd, early JM Jarre, Oldfield etc have all influenced me greatly, but in recent years I have gained a very healthy respect and love for ‘The Flaming Lips’ – for their styles, songs and attitudes.
Where are you from and has that influenced you?
I’m a smalltown boy from Buxton, Derbyshire – the coldest town in England – it can be a little bleak (apart from the 2 weeks we call summer) – so maybe some of the darker tones to my sounds stem from the blistering cold, over-riding melancholy and perpetual greyness. Buxton also had a load of great musicians.. it used to be said that Buxton had more musicians per capita-head than New Orleans. Probably folly, but there was a lot of us making a noise back in our formative years for sure.
What are you most proud of so far in your career?
I think highlights so far stem from taking brave steps.. One of those was hooking up with Brazilian band Ashtar in 2005, when they arrived in England without their keyboard player.. I had 3 or 4 days to learn a complex set of celtic, prog metal songs, 2 days to meet and get to know the band, before heading out around Europe on tour. It was all rather marvellous!
I also think that there is a certain bravery in attempting to recreate Pawn Hearts.. as I’m sure there are many out there who regard the album as a masterpiece (as do I), almost sacred music, that should not be tampered with. It’s also rather tricky stuff to play. So I’m very proud of at least managing to get to the finish line.
I’m also very proud of the band or collective that I belong to called ‘Sector NINE’. We’ve managed to finish 4 albums (almost 5 hours) worth of, what I consider to be, top drawer music in just under a year. I’m perhaps now a better keyboard player since I began my involvement in the project at the beginning of lockdown 2020.
Do you have plans to perform live at some point?
I have no plans for anything live. I retired from gigging around a decade ago, as I wasn’t enjoying the experience anymore. Never say never though.
What are you next projects?
We’re about to release our 4th Sector NINE album – which is a ‘radical remix compilation’ of tracks from our first three albums, and we’ve started work on a 5th album of three epic numbers for 2022. I’m also in the early stages of putting together a new ‘Rob Gould plays’… album.. more to be revealed soon…
More information can be found at robgould.co.uk
Further details on Rob Gould plays Pawn Hearts is available from fruitsdemerrecords.com
