John Williams is a record producer and songwriter. He has managed, A&R’d, and produced many artists including The Housemartins, Simple Minds, Blancmange and Petula Clark. When lockdown happened, it was a natural progression to keep writing and producing, which led to formation of The John Williams Syndicate. Jason Barnard speaks to John about his new project and looks back over his remarkable career.
John Williams (photo by John Offenbach)
Hi John, when did you get the idea to create The John Williams Syndicate?
I love making records, creating a musical event/journey from an idea that starts off as just a hum (like a Winnie the Pooh Hum that comes into your head as you walk through the streets), and as lockdown happened, it presented me with an opportunity to finish off something I had started at RAK Records with Mickie Most in 1979 – when I released a couple of singles as a singer fronting my own East Side Band studio project, but never released an album. Initially this started off as East Side Band Mk 2.
I had spent most of 2019 producing Paul Heaton and Jacqui Abbotts’s album Manchester Calling. It was released in 2020, went straight in the chart at No 1 and we were all celebrating the fruition of four albums which had all been top 4- and finally we got the number one that we had all worked towards!
About 10 years ago I built a recording studio at the bottom of my London Garden, and as there was no other work going on, I just kept writing and recording in my 10 ft by 12 ft shed! The Wendy House as Petula Clark calls it.
The name The John Williams Syndicate was suggested to me by Jamie White, an ex-colleague of mine from Sanctuary Records days- where I had been Senior VP of A&R for the record label.
He contacted me out of the blue having seen me In a Proclaimers documentary. “I didn’t know you were a record producer”, he exclaimed. I told him I was writing a collection of songs and he asked if I would play them to him. He runs Sunfish Music Publishing- with his Dad, Chris White from The Zombies.
He heard a few songs and encouraged me to create 10 songs half with me fronting and half with other singers, both established and new and performers. Both he and Liz Wheeldon from the Chairworks Studio in Castleford convinced met to dive in the deep end!
What was the process for writing and choosing the material on ‘Out Of Darkness’?
I have always written songs from University in Canada onwards and had a load of stockpiled ideas.
In Canada I performed for several years on the Coffee House circuit, and at my Huron College, I had a Sunday Night residency for several years- singing mainly songs that I had written during the week, sprinkled with a few covers of Georges Moustaki songs, and a carbon copy of The Zombies’ version of Summertime. Vocally I thought I was the younger brother of Colin Blunstone and Nick Drake! And I had many ideas left over from The Tribe TV series cast soundtrack that I had written with Matt Prime, two albums of songs for Petula Clark, and a Claudia Brucken solo album.
I began by going through old notebooks, grabbing lines, music phrases, and trawling through cassette recorders,and digital recorders. I set the alarm for 4am and spent the first two months writing and finishing off the songs that comprise the album. All the songs appear in a folky Kingston Trio form to begin with, then I apply different rhythms to them, and the style of the song emerges via tempo and rhythmic change. Basically, joining all the dots together.
The first song I wrote for the project was New Flag. I had been playing the introduction country figure for years as a warmup exercise, so the song became based around that motif, coupled with nods to the classic 3 chord trick of La Bamba/Hang on Sloopy/Twist and Shout/Louie Louie.
In a nod to another of my big heroes Jeff Lynne, I initially played everything on New Flag. When I was happy with it, I invited some other musicians to add some more flavours.
James Hallawell backed up Jane Burgess violin section with a string quartet, and my son Charlie Williams played the looped riff that appears over the front of the song.
I wanted to create a collection of songs that painted on a wide canvas. I was keen to explore as many genres as I could- from country to rock, to Cuban to hip hop. So I trawled through my notebooks, my Jimmy Webb inspired yellow lined legal pads, and simply turned up every day bright and early in my studio- my Virginia Wolf type “Room Of My Own” and picked a few out, as Viv Stanshall from the Bonzos would say, from ‘the Canyons of my Mind’!
I whittled it down to 12 songs and began shaping them, finding tempos, arrangements, keys and making demo ideas of them, and then the process of recording. I was the manager, the A&R man, the artist and musician, all rolled into one.
New Flag’s lyrics are positive and hopeful. Was that an important message for you to convey?
Even when things don’t look so good, I try and keep my glass half full. I’m a great believer in positive thinking- smile and the world smiles with you kind of person.
New Flag is a song of hope, adapting to new circumstances, about being brave and positive, holding onto hope, and appreciating the simple things, the constants in your life A sort of Wordsworthian way of seeing freshness in everyday things, which you often take for granted, as in the daffodils. I believe optimism is better for you than pessimism. It’s contagious!
How long have you known Petula – was she an obvious choice to sing on New Flag?
I’ve known Petula since 2000 when we met when I was working at Sanctuary Records. We owned her PYE records catalogue, and we all met up to discuss yet another Greatest Hits package.
Naturally she was more interested in the future than the past and we recorded a few new songs, including Memories of Love, we got on with each other, and I became her A&R manager.
So, I rang her and told her about the Syndicate project and asked if I could send her a song to sing on. She liked New Flag, at least called it ‘Not Bad’, which I translate as being ‘I like it; She recorded her vocal in Geneva with David Hadzis engineering her vocal. We never actually sang in the same room on this particular song.
Our voices blend really well, and she understands my slightly idiosyncratic Nick Drake vocal type phrasing.
The video for New Flag was shot by Andy McConnell. What led him to film it given his last music video was almost 40 years ago, Blancmange’s ‘Living On The Ceiling’?
I managed Blancmange with my Wolverhampton chum Paul Smith. I was the soundman on the video and carried the Nagra tape machine to which we filmed the playback in Cairo. Andy McConnell was the producer. He and I had worked very closely together getting free flights, tour guides and tour bus gratis from the Egyptian tourist board, basically smoothing the way for an extremely extravagant video – to be made extremely cheaply!
Our lives went in different directions after that. Then he became the glass expert, Decanterman, on the Antiques Roadshow, and I would comment ‘there’s my ole buddy Andy, we did the Living On the Ceiling video together.
Eventually I tracked him down on Facebook and he replied “is that THE John Williams”. Haha.
I sent him New Flag and he suggested he could make a video for it. He loved the song and made a great video with cameraman and editor Peter Hayes.
John Williams (photo by Rossi’s Social Media)
How did you record the album?
I use Logic Pro X. I have a Neumann 87 microphone with a vocal chain of a Neve 1073 preamp, an API eq unit, a Shadow Hills Compressor, and an SSL audio interface with a TLA 5051 Mono valve processor. I use an SE 2200 to record my acoustic guitar and have a set of Focal twin speakers as the main monitors with a pair of Focal CMS 50’s as a smaller nearfield speaker. I have Beyer Dynamic DT990 headphones and a Wem Copycat!
Guitar wise I have a Fender strat, a Fender telecaster, a Rickenbacker, an Epiphone330, ales Paul a Fender Precision and Hofner bass, Fender Banjo, ukes/mandolin /12 string and Guild M20, Yamaha AFX10 and an unknown make Martin style guitar which sounds amazing- made for Steve Howe- who gave it to my Japanese friend Hide Hayashi, who gave it to me
I would put together my version of a song and then get some of the parts replaced by ‘name’ and not so name friends. Most of their contributions were sent down the line due to the Covid restrictions at the beginning, but later on as restrictions eased, there was more footfall through my North Kensington house!
The next John Williams Syndicate single is ‘Never Want To Be Without You’, one of the album’s highlights. Do you remember how this track was written and the sound you aimed for?
Yes, I love this song. It has a mantra like, relaxed vibe to it. I’m very keen on there being a ‘nut’ to the song lyrically, and this is another love song. It could be about you cat or dog, or boyfriend or girlfriend.
Songs usually appear in bits and pieces. With this song I was thinking of Nick Drake and was attempting a fancy ‘hammer on hammer off’ riff- that he specialised in. And the melody just drifted out. I keep the ideas on my iPhone for reference. Often melodic ideas get lost in the mist of time. You think I’m bound to remember that, and of course moments later it has vanished like quicksilver escaping through your hand, never to return. I write everything down; it has a Fleetwood Mac vibe to it-people have commented. I was imagining what Nick Drake would sound like today if he were still making records- that was the sound I had in my head- an imaginary one!
Who else did you collaborate with to record ‘Out Of Darkness’?
I had some marvellous musicians join me. James Hallawell is a Renaissance man, genius on keyboards and no slouch on the guitar or vocals. We get together 2 or 3 times a year and beautiful music just pours out. He and I wrote ‘Close to you’ and ‘You’re On My Mind’.
Ben Walker, famed folk guitarist played the incandescent blues guitar on ‘You got me from hello’, and the funky riff on the dancey’ You’re on My Mind’. Jane Burgess played magical violin on a lot of the songs, my son Charlie Williams played the solos on ‘Close to you’, and ‘Loud and Clear’, Pete Marshall overdubbed real drums over my Logic Pro X drummer from his studio in Manchester. Guy Barker, legendary trumpeter blows on 3 songs, chums Mike Allen and Simon Elliston play bass and Saxophone, Adrian York and I wrote Spanish Song together, which he also plays piano on as well as the burbling Argent type Hammond solo on ‘Loud and Clear’, Iain Matthews co-wrote some lyrics on “Loud and Clear’. Singers were Petula Clark on New Flag , Claudia Brucken on two songs, and newcomers Amber Prothero, Slicko diCaprio, and Isabella Coulstock.
Phil Bodger initially mixed New Flag, I was helped greatly by Luie Dransfield , who made sense of my engineering skills, and mixed the album with me. Tim Hobart painted the artwork and a small team comprising Steve Rossi, Sue Williams, and Jamie White worked with me to launch the record. It’s been quite a journey.
How did you decide which song suited which vocalist?
Initially I sang them all and then I thought about who this suit would better. They were all game to try out new ideas. It was trial and error. In all honesty they are all wonderful singers and all could have sung each other songs.
When and how did you first get involved in the music industry?
I went to University at University of Western Ontario in London Canada. As I was nearing the end of my fourth year of my Honours English degree, I wrote off dozens of letters to magazines, radio stations record labels and publishing companies back home in England. I had written a weekly rock review in the University Gazette newspaper, had started a fanzine called The Trouser Press, and I thought record business here I come! I got 3 replies! One from Sounds Magazine, one from John Fruin, MD of Polydor and one from Richard Branson and his fledgling Virgin Records. They all offered me jobs, but lacking any management experience, (Richard wanted me to manage Kevin Coyne; I thought John Fruins’ idea of getting regional experience on the road was good. So, In August 1974 I became Polydor Regional Promotion manager for the East Midlands. And spent the next 18 months plugging new records by The Rubettes, Mac and Katie Kissoon, Barclay James Harvest, Neil Sedaka, James Last, The Who, Slade, The Osmonds, and many others like Disco Tex and his Sex o lettes! My patch was Leicester, Derby, Nottingham, Stoke, and Norwich. I had my Red Ford Cortina Mk 4 (vinyl seats standard) a boot full of records, and sought out exposure on local newspapers, discos, BBC radio stations, University radio stations, and, the DJ’s at football grounds that played records at half time. I also organised interviews for the local radio tours that Polydor set up for breaking new acts. The act would arrive at Leicester train station and we would do a circuit of Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Stoke and then I would hand over the act to my boss Mike Perry in Birmingham at BRMB- which was part of the West Midlands Promotion manager!
It was an eye opener. Most folks were keen to help themselves to the contents of my boot- that was replenished weekly from the red star office at Peterborough train station- where another new box of promtional sngies and albums would arrive weekly Polydor had 8 of us on the road. It was an extraordinary introduction to the record business.
How did your role evolve in your first decade in music?
Eventually I got brought down to the London Polydor office to do Radio 1 and Capital Radio promotion. Then in late 76, Phil Lowrey at Island Records hired me to plug Bob Marley and other Island artists. I later became label manager for Denny Cordell’s Shelter Records and was a catalyst in breaking Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers. I released records by JJ Cale, Matthew Moore, and Dwight Twilley.
I also began writing record reviews for a fledgling magazine Radio and Record News, published by Greg Thain –an energetic young entrepreneur.
I had also built a four-track studio in my London flat but found myself too busy to write songs- which was what I really wanted to do. Jamie West Oram from The Fixx, Bob Clifford, and Stuart Slater from The Mojos all helped me with my demos.
I left Island in 77 and became a freelance journalist, and an occasional on-air commentator for Radio 1’s ‘Rock On” Saturday afternoon programme. I remember doing a piece on Nick Drake!
The editor of Radio and Record News was also from Wolverhampton, a fellow Wulfrunian. He had a Top Ten hit as Driver 67 with Car 67. I got his manager Larry Levane to represent me and very quickly I too got a record deal and signed to Mickie Most at RAK- who released my first single “Rendezvous’. It immediately became Record of the Week on Radio One for Kid Jensen – and was hammered on the radio. However, it didn’t sell, and I was dropped after the first single. I released one more single on my own Black Label, ‘Won’t You Be Mine’, which was Terry Wogan Record of the week on Radio 2.
So, in the space of five years, I had gone from plugger to artist and really cut ties with both professions. I was pondering my lot when Stuart Grundy, a much-respected Radio One producer who I had plugged with product had noticed me, and one day rang and asked if I would be interested in producing radio one live sessions.
So, by 1984 I was managing and having Top 10 hits with Blancmange sharing an office with the Talk Talk manager Keith Aspden, and producing some wonderful Radio One Live Sessions. Life was good.
What are your highlights from being a session producer for BBC Radio One?
Stuart Grundy used to ring me to check my availability for live sessions for other shows besides John Peel. So soon I was producing live sessions for Kid Jensen, Peter Powell, Janice Long, Bruno Brooks, John Peel, and The Friday Night rock show. Landmark sessions were always ones that got released as records.
Highlight sessions include ones by Simple Minds (Promised you a miracle and King IS White), The Waterboys (Medicine Bow was released as the official single) Big Country, Cocteau Twins, Killing Joke, The Birthday Party, Aswad, Barrington Levy, The Cure The Gymslips. All in all I produced over 60 sessions.
My first session was Killing Joke in 1982 and my last was Then my very last session before I become an A&R manager at Chrysalis Records was for The Housemartins.
When did you first meet The Housemartins and what are your memories of producing London 0 Hull 4?
I produced a 1985 Janice Long session and it sounded good. It turned out that Go! Discs was distributed by Chrysalis, so when it came to making the album, the band asked if I would produce it for them.
My boss Stuart Slater thought it a good idea, and so I would go the Chrysalis office in the morning until 12 then drive over to The Strongroom at Shoreditch for 1230 and we would start the session.
My pal Phil Bodger engineered and, in two weeks we had recorded most of the songs, which we then mixed at Air Studios at Oxford Circus.
They were extraordinary sessions full of epic music making, joking and laughter. I got Pete Wingfield to play some piano on ‘Flag Day’ and ‘I’ll Be Your Shelter’. it was obvious that Paul was a meticulous and precise in his vision and that he was an extraordinary lyrical lyricist. I have admired him ever since.
Did the huge success of the album and Happy Hour surprise you and the group?
Well, they were on a upward trajectory and the mood of the nation was welcoming their fresh approach to music. They had gained a big live following and anything was possible. The album still sounds amazing and fresh and vital. I’m not sure they were surprised because their aim was to be successful, but I can’t answer the question for them!
What are your favourite albums that you have produced and why?
The Proclaimers ‘This Is the Story’. Everything about it from the sleeve to the song writing and dare I say it production is immaculate. And it launched an extraordinary career. I used Simon and Garfunkel ‘Bookends’ as the sonic template to the sound of the album.
The Housemartins ‘The People Who Grinned Themselves ‘To Death’. We recorded this great album in Stockport at the now defunct Yellow 2 studios on a new Mitsubishi digital recorder through a Neve desk. Phill Bodger engineered, and we again mixed at Air Studios. It has my two favourite songs Build and Bow Down on it.
Petula Clark ‘Lost in You’. A glorious affirmation of the great voice of our longest established superstar. Recorded in the Wendy house at the bottom of my garden, and mixed in Bath with Steve Evans, Engineered by the talented Paul Visser. Includes the Time Magazine single of the year 2013 ‘Cut Copy Me’ – the modern electronic dance ballad that got the album started.
Claudia Brucken ‘Where else’. An album of songs we co-wrote and a cover of Nick Drake’s Day Is Done. Recorded at the bottom of my garden. Claudia has the sweetest voice, and the songs are sublime, seductive, and beautiful.
James Taylor Quartet ‘Get Organised’ JTQ at their powerful zenith, funky, jazzy, epic horn playing, and masterful playing from UK’s Booker T, Style Council’s Steve White on drums –live from Air studio 1 the best drum sound in London.
How would you describe the role of A&R and what artists/records did you have the biggest impact with?
The A&R man of the 50’s and 60’s was invariably the record producer as well. A&R is the boiler room of a record company, and the role of the A&R man is both to spot new talent, and to help steer the artist project to completion on time and in budget. An A&R man is a bit like being a football manager. It’s an everyday results process. And he is very vulnerable. The great A&R men could also produce records. John Hammond, George Martin, Mickie Most, Chris Blackwell could also produce. I think the artist has more confidence in you as an A&R man when they know that you know how the entire process works.
Jethro Tull ‘Crest of Knave’ (1987) unexpectedly won Grammy for Rock record of the year. Ian Anderson is one of the most extraordinarily talented artist that I have ever met. I would drop everything if he ever rang me at the office, Always put him through even if I am in a meeting, I would instruct the switchboard (pre mobile phone)!
Alison Moyet ‘Voice’. This is another superb album that showcases the voice of the great lady. I had a hunch that Anne Dudley would be the perfect producer for Alison—and we had a gold album.
The Proclaimers ‘Life with you’. This was the first album for my W14 Music label that I started after my ten-year tenure at Sanctuary ended. It propelled them back into the Top20 and reenergised their career.
Simple Minds ‘050505’ . Wonderful to work with Glaswegian legends Jim Kerr and Charlie Burchill. This was a rocking powerful rocking record recorded at Wisseloord in Eindhoven and gave the band a new hit.
In the last decade you’ve produced a string of successful albums with Paul Heaton and Jacqui Abbott. How do you help shape the sound of those records and what is it like working with Paul and Jacqui?
I’ve produced four albums for Paul and Jacqui. Working with Paul is both easy and all consuming.
He continues to write captivating songs, and we soon to start recording the 5th album. It’s so much easier working with an artist who knows what he wants to sound like. Working with two total professionals is a dream come true. To be still engaged with a superstar act is wonderful and quite energising. We made the first three albums at The Chairworks in Castleford. They charted at 3, 2 and 4 and the last album ‘Manchester Calling’ was recorded at Blueprint in Salford. The studio rooms shape the sound but Paul has a very strong vision for how he wants everything to sound, My role is to get that. It’s wide ranging palette that he paints, his canvas is broad and the colours are extraordinary.
What current projects are you working on? What are your plans for 2022?
I’ve co-written the new Propaganda album with Stephen Lipson, Claudia Brucken and Suzanne Freytag. That’s being released in the Spring.
I am working on a new Petula Clark single for the John Williams Syndicate. I’ve written another John Williams Syndicate new album and next year I’m back in Manchester to produce a 5th Paul and Jacqui album.
Out of Darkness by The John Williams Syndicate is out now. Further information can be found at johnowenwilliams.com
