Dion on his friendship with Sam Cooke

Legendary singer-songwriter Dion DiMucci shares memories of his profound friendship with Sam Cooke to unraveling his latest album, ‘Girl Friends’. This is an extract of a full interview with Dion, which is also available as a podcast.

On ‘Song for Sam Cooke’ you collaborated with Paul Simon. Was that related to when you toured with Sam?

I travelled with Sam Cooke back in the early 60s and he was just a very stand up guy. A kind of statuette, a very intelligent guy, a believer, a very spiritual guy. His father was a preacher. Now that I look back on it, I think that our relationship was based on brotherly love. He taught me that, if race matters to you, you’re a racist. Just as simple as that. It didn’t matter to us. We didn’t look at it. It was like hair colour or eye colour. They’re actually saying something totally different in America now, that it should matter to you. No, I don’t think so. I think I’ll go with Sam.

But he was a very intelligent guy and I’ve seen him in all kinds of situations with people in the South at that time, like calling him names up close. And I never saw him react. I always saw him turn things around in such an intelligent way that he had people look at themselves. I was from the Bronx, I was like, “Hey, Sam, why don’t you whack that guy?” But never. Then it dawned on me one day why he never reacted or got ruffled. He was the most intelligent guy in the room. The one thing he cared about, he wasn’t in the relationship to win. He was in the relationship to bring up what was true. That was his aim. Not to win the argument or to be better or to get over on somebody or to be right. No, he just kind of turned the thing around and would say, “Well, let’s look at what’s true.” He had that ability to show people and they’d walk away tongue tied.

‘Song for Sam Cooke’, is about him protecting me. He took me to a club to see James Brown before James was popular. People were coming on to me. It was kind of like a reverse kind of discrimination. He would say, “Hey, this is my brother. He’s with me. Hands off, relax.” So that’s what the whole song is about. I had it in the drawer for so long, but when I saw a green book, I took it out and I said, “I think I’m gonna do this.” I recorded it with Paul and he got it. It wasn’t about racism or anything like that. The song is about brotherly love.

‘Girl Friends’ is part of a run of fantastic records. What was the inspiration for the album?

I had done an album called ‘Blues with Friends’, and I worked with Samantha Fish, and it was so much fun working with her. And, girls, they change the atmosphere of the room, especially beautiful talented women. It was so much fun. I worked with Patti Scialfa, and I love working with her. She’s just delightful. And Bruce [Springsteen] is so helpful. But then I went to ‘Stomping Ground’, and I worked with Marcia Ball and Ricky Lee Jones, and a few other women.

When I started writing on this latest album I thought it would be an interesting thing to write some of the songs as a conversation. Like across the table, like you’re having with a woman. And it just kept going. I got on the Joe Bonamassa Blues Cruise, and I heard Maggie Rose, and Joanne Shaw Taylor. I listen to a lot of music. I’ve always been listening to Susan Tedeschi and Carleen Carter. I love Rory Block. Sue Foley is an old friend. I thought, man, it would be a great idea just to do a whole album.

I didn’t call it ‘Girl Friends’ at the time, but I started to think of writing in this direction. Instead of doing a Tony Bennett album, where you just pick up a whole bunch of traditional songs and everybody sings a verse, no matter what this song is saying, I thought it would be interesting to actually have a relationship kind of song where you’re talking back and forth.

But I didn’t want to make it boring and write them all like that. So I changed it up a little, and I came up with this album, ‘Girl Friends’. Like I said, I listened to a lot of women who are just mesmerising, the distinctive, masterful kind of monster musicians, and a force to be dealt with. They’re unbelievable. That’s how I got that song ‘Soul Force’. I call it the feminine genius.

‘I Aim to Please’ with Danielle Nicole, is the most recent release from it. There seems to be a bit of fun there, especially with the video.

Yes, you know what happened. That song had an evolution in itself. I started it out like a Jimmy Reed thing, and I was singing it down here and it was, it was not risque, it was very sexy. It could go either way. So I started it down there and I was singing the song. Then I had Danielle Nicole come in and she isn’t in my range. She said, “Should I sing it lower or higher?” I said, “Sing it Higher”. It’s good for the contrast. Well, she started singing with such power and energy that every verse on that song is different. I’m going, I start here, I move up here because I’m trying to match her energy. Then I move up here in the last verse. She just kept pushing me. So these are the surprises that happen and I liked it. It wasn’t my original intention for the song.

I felt like it was going in a good place. So I went with it. And man, I’ll tell you, Jason, between you and me and the rest of you guys who will listen to this. Personally, as far as I’m concerned, since Aretha Franklin and Whitney Houston have passed on and gone to a better place, I’ll tell you, this girl is the best singer on the planet. She’s unbelievable.